wow... the irony is amazing.
so here we have a cartoon about how to deal with bullying, which in itself is a positive message.
what's incredible is that it's brought to you by a religious organization that dominates your life, and requires absolute, loyal submission from its members.. if you should dare stand up and question its unique, ever-changing, brand of contradicting "christian" doctrine, then you will be labeled as "weak", "worldly", "bad association", and possibly an "apostate".
Archie and Jughead... LOL! Wouldn't that be copyright infringement!
Yeah fakesmile, there are many forms of bullying... and I reckon WT has bullied nearly everyone here on this site. WT seems to excel at verbal bullying and fear mongering. I don't think I'm a bully for standing up for myself to a bully. Like you, I'll go down fighting as well. I just found the whole thing humorous and ironic -that's all. Needed to vent about it.
wow... the irony is amazing.
so here we have a cartoon about how to deal with bullying, which in itself is a positive message.
what's incredible is that it's brought to you by a religious organization that dominates your life, and requires absolute, loyal submission from its members.. if you should dare stand up and question its unique, ever-changing, brand of contradicting "christian" doctrine, then you will be labeled as "weak", "worldly", "bad association", and possibly an "apostate".
Wow... the irony is amazing. So here we have a cartoon about how to deal with bullying, which in itself is a positive message. What's incredible is that it's brought to you by a religious organization that dominates your life, and requires absolute, loyal submission from its members.
If you should dare stand up and question its unique, ever-changing, brand of contradicting "Christian" doctrine, then you will be labeled as "weak", "worldly", "bad association", and possibly an "apostate". You will be the subject of congregational gossip and slander. You will be told that unless you repent Jesus will kill you along with the evil criminals, fornicators, adulterers, drunkards, and the other billions of non-Witnesses (men, women, and children) when he soon returns at Armageddon. Birds and other wild animals will devour our rotting flesh in paradise -all because you dared to stand up and question your own beliefs.
Finally, should you decide to follow your conscience and aspire to adhere to the actual teachings of Christ instead of the ramblings of men; and should you decide to follow the teachings of the Bible instead of the organization's literature, then all your lifelong friends and your family members will be required to shun you lest they be mercilessly judged and treated the same way by the same people.
Now correct me if I'm wrong... but does that not fit the definition of a "Bully"?
just want to wish everyone a happy new year.
i don't post as often as many of you, mostly because of time issues.
however, i just want to tell everyone here -no matter how you believe -that i appreciate everyone's posts.
Now that is a compliment! Thank you GSD, I am honored. I hope it helps awaken someone you care about.
jw's claim to be god-fearing, faithful, spiritual people with a unique special personal relationship with god (jehovah).. yet, so much of what they do is just fro show, an outward appearance of holiness and faithfulness:.
) shunning- an organization-sanctioned shunning policy publicly "outs" the shunned and puts pressure on members to cary out the shunning.
why is this necessary if they truly have faith in god and that he sees all and nothing is hidden from his view?
Regarding grooming: I've always questioned beards even when I was an elder. Never saw the harm in it. Felt it was natural, created by God. Was it not God who told Peter to stop calling unclean the things God cleansed?
The line I always heard was that beards weren't becoming of a minister of God. We don't want to stumble anyone from learning the truth. However, I looked around and no worldly people were stumbled by beards. In fact, believe it or not, non-JWs actually grow beards! The only people I knew who were stumbled by beards were Jehovah's Witnesses, and they're stumbled because the leadership from the local body of elders all the way to the GB say it's "worldly."
The topic of beards uncovers an unadulterated truth about the organization: The Watch Tower organization does not build strong Christians; they weaken Christians (JWs) to the point that a man's facial hair becomes a stumbling block.
Who wants to be part of a religion that makes you weaker... not stronger?
P.S. - By the way, I have grown a beard and I love it. It is short and kempt. I have received many compliments on it. I have also discussed the Bible with people while wearing my beard, and I have found that it does not add or detract from the discussion. It is a non-issue, unless, of course, you're a Witness.
just want to wish everyone a happy new year.
i don't post as often as many of you, mostly because of time issues.
however, i just want to tell everyone here -no matter how you believe -that i appreciate everyone's posts.
I meant... "rhythm"... see what I mean about proofreading! LOL!
just want to wish everyone a happy new year.
i don't post as often as many of you, mostly because of time issues.
however, i just want to tell everyone here -no matter how you believe -that i appreciate everyone's posts.
Thanks all! I appreciate your thoughts. I do try to pay attention to the meter and rhthym of a poem... thanks for noticing!
You know, I noticed a mistake in the third verse... it should say "Faithful Slave". It's funny how you can proof-read something a dozen times, but not catch something until you walk away for a few hours. This was pretty much hot off the press when I posted it. I probably should have held it for a little longer, but I wanted to share my thoughts, and I had a little time to do so.
I also have made a change to verse four: the last line now says "Because The Truth is good." I thought it better harmonized with the title and how JWs really are more interested in directing people to The Truth (aka The Organization) rather than anything else.
Aside from that... it reflects my personal awakening, but I'm sure many can relate. I've learned more about the Bible and Christianity during the last year or so than I ever did in the previous 30-some years in the organization.
Thanks again... and Happy New Year. May the next year prove to be a banner year for those awakening to the truth about The Truth!
just want to wish everyone a happy new year.
i don't post as often as many of you, mostly because of time issues.
however, i just want to tell everyone here -no matter how you believe -that i appreciate everyone's posts.
Just want to wish everyone a Happy New Year. I don't post as often as many of you, mostly because of time issues. However, I just want to tell everyone here -no matter how you believe -that I appreciate everyone's posts. When I have posted, you have always been encouraging. I keep an open mind, and have learned so many things from the discussions here on this forum.
At 5am this morning, I was lying in bed, and these words started to just flow. I haven't written anything remotely close to poetry for the last three years mainly due to so much upheaval in my life. I have so much to say, and this always proved to be an outlet for me. Nevertheless, I just exploded with these verses. I just wanted to share.
Thanks again everyone! I hope you enjoy... and it's not too corny.
THE TRUTH
In 1919 you became
The one that God would use
Thus you are He, his chosen one,
To teach the world His truth.
You say you are God's channel true
Who'll lead us to our God.
You'll shepherd us until the end;
Assigned to use the rod.
You teach us you're the Faith Slave-
To put our trust in you;
And we began to call "The Truth"
All things you say and do.
From door to door we teach The Truth
Just as you say we should,
And try to lead them all to you
Because our God is good.
You warn us that the end in near
For God's appointed time,
And if we do not follow you
Just like the world we'll die.
But if we do the things you say
Our God will then be pleased
To save us when he'll soon destroy
All those who don't believe.
We learn salvation is through you
Because you teach these things
You are the way, the truth, the life,
And soon you'll be our kings.
Now if I take the time to read
What God's Word says to do,
I find some things that don't add up
When they're compared to you.
Why does the psalmist warn that we
Should not in nobles trust?
Salvation isn't found with man
Because we're only dust.
If we should trust you like you teach;
Can't question what you say,
Then aren't we trusting nobles who
Could lead us all astray?
And Luke records the Master's words
When he foretold a time
When some would say that they have been
Anointed like the Christ.
Yes chose by God to lead his flock
They'd claim the time is near.
He warned us not to follow them
Although they'd seem sincere.
Yet don't you claim to be the one
Anointed as God planned
To follow as his Faithful Slave
Because the time's at hand?
You've given us so many dates-
Prophetic times and years,
And though each date failed as before-
The end is always near!
So if we follow Jesus' words
How can we follow you?
You fit his sign down to a T,
Or are his words not true?
You say that Jesus mediates
But not for all mankind.
You fail to understand Paul's words
Betraying that you're blind.
But you'd have us believe it's you
Who guides us to our prize;
Associating somewhere else
Will mean we'll all soon die.
At Acts salvation is not found
Through anything on earth.
So tell me now you "Faithful Slave"
How much you're really worth.
Are you so worthy that I'll trust
My life with what you say?
How many times have you changed "truth"?
It's truth that you betray!
So many lives you lead astray
And more you seek to find.
You're like the Pharisees of old
The blind has led the blind.
Christ Jesus is the way we walk,
He is the truth and life,
You're just a prophet proven false,
Your fate is filled with strife.
The truth is that I woke to see
You're really just a fraud.
I'll follow God and Jesus Christ
Forever them I'll laud.
have you ever wanted to have a witty comeback for a jw's thought stopping platitude or slogun, but couldn't think of one to plant a seed of doubt in a jw?
please share your witty comebacks and a bible verse(s) that contradicts watchtower thought stopping platitudes and slogans.. here are a couple of mine.. 1) watchtower thougnt-stopping platitude - "where else will we go?".
response - "don't you mean to whom?
Here's another nugget that might help:
Watchtower: “… Jesus Christ, is not the Mediator between Jehovah God and all mankind. He is the Mediator between his heavenly Father, Jehovah God, and the nation of spiritual Israel, which is limited to only 144,000 members.” (Worldwide Security Under the “Prince of Peace”, chap. 1 pp. 10-11 par. 16)
Bible: “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all—[this is] what is to be witnessed to at its own particular times.” (1 Timothy 2:5, 6)
Reasoning with a Witness:
(1) The context of 1 Timothy 2:1-7 should be sufficient to show that Jesus is a mediator between God and everyone. Paul references "kings and all those who are in high station." Obviously these weren't annointed men. Paul also says Jesus "gave himself a corresponding ransom for all". Did Jesus give himself as a ransom only for the anointed 144,000? Nope. In fact, all the "men" that Paul references in 1 Timothy 2:1-7 include non-anointed people. (I say non-anointed loosely -refering to how Watch Tower explains things.)
Logically, does it make sense that Jesus would give himself as a ransom for all, but not mediate for all he ransomed? In one concise statement Paul says: “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all—[this is] what is to be witnessed to at its own particular times.” To say Jesus is mediator for only the 144,000 anointed Christians would be like saying Jesus is ransom only for the 144,000 and Jehovah is the “one God” only for the 144,000. It just does not make sense that this would be the case.
(2) Watch Tower likes to confuse this verse by focusing on what a "mediator" is; however, the word mediator is not the issue. This issue revolves around who benefits from Jesus' mediatorship. The scripture says "there is one God, and one mediator between God and men". Whom are these "men" that Jesus' acts as mediator?
If you have a Greek Interlinear Bible, the Greek word for "men" in the phrase "between God and men" is anthropon. This is a derivative of the word anthrópos, which is a generic term for all mankind, the human race.
Jesus used the same word anthropon at Luke 19:30, "Go into the village that is within sight of you, and in it after you pass in you will find a colt tied, on which none of mankind [anthropon] ever sat."
Paul used the word anthropon again at 1 Timothy 4:10, "For to this end we are working hard and exerting ourselves, because we have rested our hope on a living God, who is a Savior of all sorts of men [anthropon], especially of faithful ones." Certainly, anthropon in this verse refers to all mankind –including those who are not faithful Christians.
Therefore, when Paul used anthropon at 1 Timothy 2:5, "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men [anthropon]", he was refering to all mankind as he does again at 1 Timothy 4:10, and as Jesus did at Luke 19:30. In fact, you could substitue and say, "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and mankind, a man, Christ Jesus, who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all."
Once again Watch Tower is found contradicting the Bible. Jesus is definitely mediator for all mankind... not for just a few thousand of the billions who have ever lived.
Case closed.
have you ever wanted to have a witty comeback for a jw's thought stopping platitude or slogun, but couldn't think of one to plant a seed of doubt in a jw?
please share your witty comebacks and a bible verse(s) that contradicts watchtower thought stopping platitudes and slogans.. here are a couple of mine.. 1) watchtower thougnt-stopping platitude - "where else will we go?".
response - "don't you mean to whom?
This is a great thread. It's one close to my own heart. For a couple of years now, I've been compiling a list of subjects that shows how Watch Tower directly contradicts the Bible. Since JWs will rarely, if ever, consult publications outside the organization because they deem these as possible "apostate" material, I have come to realize and firmly believe that the publications themselves are sufficient to help awaken a Witness . They certainly contributed to my awakening. The trick seems to be in our presentation -how effectively we use logic, questions, and the Bible. (Just like the FS training we received when we were in this organization!)
Data-Dog, BroMac, Kurtbethel: Thanks for the encouragement. I appreciate your points as well! In fact, to add to Kurtbethel's point how the Bible Teach book acts as bait that contradicts other publications once you're in, here are other quotes from other publications that clearly show that a Witness is to view the organization as absolutely necessary for salvation:
…the witness yet includes the invitation to come to Jehovah’s organization for salvation… (w1981 11/15, p. 21, par. 18)
Still, as a people, “the chosen ones” and their loyal companions will physically survive the end of apostate Christendom by taking refuge in Jehovah and his mountainlike organization. (w2011 1/15, p.4, par. 8)
But Jehovah’s servants already belong to the only organization that will survive the end of this wicked system of things. (w2007 12/15, p.14, par. 19)
Just as Noah and his God-fearing family were preserved in the ark, survival of individuals today depends on their faith and their loyal association with the earthly part of Jehovah’s universal organization. (w2006 5/15, p.22, par. 8)
Without confidence in our Christian brothers, in Jehovah’s organization and, above all, in Jehovah himself, survival will be impossible. (w1998 8/15, p.19, par.15)
How marvelous it is to see millions of people from all nations flocking into Jehovah’s organization and being taught how to survive through the great tribulation into God’s new world! (w1997 3/1, p.24)
Well, that new “nation,” born in 1919 in a restored “land,” was to develop into a worldwide organization made up of anointed and nonanointed praisers of Jehovah. This organization will survive Armageddon into God’s new world. (w1995 7/1, p.21, par.5)
Whether or not man-made structures weather the storm of Armageddon, we know that God’s organization will survive as a going concern and that Jehovah will use it and those who loyally support it, establishing eternal peace and security in the glorious earthly Paradise of God’s promise. (w1986 1/1, p.26, par.18)
…let nothing draw you away from God’s organization or destroy your relationship with the One whose arm saves all who love him. (w1991 10/1, p.10, par.9)
The irony is profound. Acts 4:12 clearly shows that salvation is not associated with anyone other than Jesus Christ. It teaches that there is no name on earth –nothing related to man under heaven –through which we can be saved. On one hand students are taught that one cannot impute “salvation to a person or an organization”, yet inside the organization Jehovah's Witnesses are continually inculcated to believe their survival and salvation depend on being closely associated with the "earthly" part of Jehovah's organization, aka The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. Watch Tower teaches an idea that the Bible clearly rejects.
Acts 4:12 is definitely one worth memorizing. Using it is very effective. I have yet to find a Witness that can refute the scripture and its logic. I have observed that it puts them in an awkward situation... either loyalty to God's Word, or the organization. That is exactly what we need to do... put them in that position to make a choice. Most Witnesses are sincere God-fearing people. They do what they do because the organization has brainwashed them. Most of us were the same way. Initially they will openly defend the organization, but cognitive dissonance will haunt their conscience for days. A sincere, honest-hearted seeker of truth will begin to wonder and question... and finally begin to think.
Good hunting my friends!
have you ever wanted to have a witty comeback for a jw's thought stopping platitude or slogun, but couldn't think of one to plant a seed of doubt in a jw?
please share your witty comebacks and a bible verse(s) that contradicts watchtower thought stopping platitudes and slogans.. here are a couple of mine.. 1) watchtower thougnt-stopping platitude - "where else will we go?".
response - "don't you mean to whom?
Watchtower: "But if we were to draw away from Jehovah'sorganization, there would be no place else to go for salvation and true joy." (w93 09/15, p.22) Salvation and survival of Armageddon only comes to those baptized as associates and members of the Watch Tower organization and the Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses. Destruction will come to all those not associated with "God's spirit-directed organization". TM
Bible: [Regarding Jesus Christ] "Furthermore, there is no salvation in anyone else, for there is not another name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must get saved." (Acts 4:12) Salvation is not possible by persons or organizations on earth -no "name under heaven." Isn't 'Watch Tower' an organization and a name under heaven that has been given among men - Yes or No?
Simply point out that Watch Tower is an organization under heaven that has been given among men by which we must get saved. This is in direct conflict with the Holy Scriptures. A Witness may start squirming at this point or desparately say something to the effect that the name was divinely appointed or given; however, even so, it remains a name under heaven. No escaping that obvious point.
If a Witness tries to somehow argue an exception to this directly stated verse, simply point that we should then be able to make exceptions with another directly stated verse in Acts... Acts 15:28 regarding abstaining from Blood. At this point, you can just sit back and watch their head explode.
Also, for extra credit, point out the statement made by TheWatchtower magazine: "We cannot take part in any modern version of idolatry -be it worshipful gestures toward an image or symbol or the imputing of salvation to a person or an organization." (w90 11/1 p. 25) If that statement is true (and it is actually), then one does not have to be a member of the organization in order to obtain salvation.
Have fun folks!
